How do you go from tracks like Four Women on your Train of Thought album, to having J. Timberlake on your first album on your own label? I was sure you would come with heat... Looks like I need to see the Rastas for this one.

Don't take it personal Kweli. I don't support the pop. You lost yet another soldier. Feed your fam. Make your cheese, but don't count on me or anyone I know to help out with that. In fact, I won't even bother getting a free copy. I'll stick to my black star heaters from the 90's.

Yo, even that snippet album you did with Madlib was a little suspect. Snap out of it. Kweli the BK MC. What happened?

Peace
Jesko One - Long Beach, CA

This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Get a life.

it happens a lil bit more often in the last time...I agree with you...

maybe it wasn't dumb, but very ignorant in my eyes. JT is an talented artist. He works himself up in the music bizz. When you don't support the "pop", I guess you don't support the "king of pop". What a pitty 'cause MJ is a great musician too.

I'm sorry for Kweli that some people stuck in the "Black Star" era.

Another hater for the "new" Kweli. Sorry but you're very lonely with this attitude.

edit:



You're prejudiced. How can you know if Eardrum is weak, shit or whatever if you don't listen to the full album? Very irgnorant and close-minded...

hahaha. What is sad that the BK mc has JT fans.

Go ahead and cop the next JT. JT is not MJ. never will be so don't bother.

BTW - The category is "Ask Kweli" not his pussy pop fans. If you like JT then I guess you will support but the bird won't see my loot. And Train of thought was no Blackstar album. Heater, but no Blackstar. Everything else after that was suspect and commercial driven. Its sad that his fans turned into MTV - TRL clones. I bet you have on a trucker hat and some lame ass 80's shades on with messy hair and a tight tee while you are reading this. Chhhhuuuuuuummmmmmm p.

"If I don't like it I don't like it that don't mean that I'm hatin" - Common

Kweli would know a little about that quote from his boy.

Now let the BK MC answer the question. Or perhaps one of his boys reading this at the Blacksmith offices.

"That's really me not a representative" - Kweli - Liberation

Peace

You said you don't support pop...MJ is the KING of POP...get it? So you aren't supporting MJ too. These are your own words. You don't support pop...


maybe there are questions that not only Kweli can answer. He worked with JT so he thought JT has potential to be on Eardrum. It's his own decission. Your questions were pretty useless and simple to answer. You don't need Kweli for it. It's his personal decission so you can't judge him for that.


Even the track together with Mos on Quality? The tracks with Hi-Tek on The Beautiful Struggle? A new album with Mos Def wouldn't be commercial driven since you as a fan want it and maybe not Kweli? You want Black Star back...if Kweli and Mos did it just for such fans like you, they would make a commercial step!
To put out Liberation for free was commercial driven? Since when is a free album commerical???


Not really. And wouldn't it be cool if Kweli and Mos were on TRL so a lot people could see how dope Black Star are?


that's exactly what you're doing here...you're hating Pop and JT...maybe you should use your "common sense" a lil bit more.


Would be cool...

Yup. I don't support pop. And? I don't have ANY MJ albums either. And? Do you? If so, great. Go get another one for all those who don't support pop.

Yo, one hot track does not make an album. I do want to hear some more Blackstar... and? Shit was hot. JT, not. Call it what you want.

Liberation was soft. Certified Used Beats is what that album should have been called. It was an attempt at getting Blacksmith some street cred using Madlib and Strong Arm Steady. It was a Label snippet like any other. Yes. Very commercial driven.

If you like MTV, TRL and Pop, great. I don't. I keep it underground. There is enough good music in the world for me to listen to. Never have never will buy a pop album.

"It might blow up... but it won't go pop" - Dilated

Take it or squeeze it.

why are you here? Quit being negative and crawl into your hole and clutch your black star booklet


I own that and R.E. so what if he's a bit more mainstream... he's done trying to please fans like you.....

hahaha... fans like me.

You guys are great!

Justin Timberlake is on his album? Ouch.

That's like the dopest track on the album. I'm not a fan of JT's.. I sure as hell look like him though and he had one song that I really liked, "Gone"..... But I judge shit when I hear it. If I don't like it, I keep it movin'... He don't owe shit to you.

LMAO @ clutch your blackstar booklet.

I'll have to agree with Jesko. Justin Timberlake is a sucka. That's symptomatic of either blowing the fuck up, or just flat selling out. Wick wick wack.

have you even heard this song?

pssh. of course not. hypocrites don't do things like find justifications for opinions.

The funny thing about all this is that its one of the better songs on the album.

lol this is just one of them dudes who will only like something if it's underground. That's wack my man. All you're doing is letting the people who put shit on the TV and radio determine what you like. Except you like whatever is not popular, just as a way to stand out and go against the grain. You're reverse brainwashed. Wake up... Decide for yourself... Pay attention, you gotta listen to hear. Now I don't watch music TV or listen to the radio, but a song's popularity has no bearing of my opinion. You shouldn't let it affect yours either.

I actually have heard that track -- I bought it off iTunes. The only decent track on that album is "Soon The New Day", but the rest is the pop.

I was gonna respond some more, but it's a waste of my time... So I'll just say hi to the haters and wave!

You just a nutrider -- you don't have the guts to voice dissent.

False. You're just a hater, so anything you don't like, you whine and complain about it. You can't accept the fact that someone else could like it.. So anyone that does, you hate on them too for liking it. You're the prime example my man, the epitome of a hater. Sad... But a lot of these artists wouldn't be anywhere without the likes of people like you. That's why you hear Joe Budden always shoutin' out the haters. Ya'll need love too.

To disprove your notion, go see my thread "Black Power Discussion" in the Let Your Voice Be Heard section.

I assume you're talking about money: you're right, mainstream artists rely on the unconscious, tasteless majority to consume their products. Not much new there.

And by saying that I'm in control is perhaps the most idiotic thing I've read on this board; it goes to show that fish swimming in a fishbowl, don't realize that they're swimming in a fishbowl. I could write you some 500 word response, just to counter that utterly ignorant comment, but I'm not going to.

At the end of the day, be it people buying iPhones, be it people getting hyped over lousy mainstream music, or fanatics on their MySpace accounts -- I don't really give a shit. It's the same patterns of behavior that people have had all throughout history -- just a different time and place, and with new things/technologies involved. As long as it doesn't restrict my freedom, I don't really care.

As long as people are willing to submit their freedom so I can keep mine, I'll be thankful.

True words... nothing else need to be said...

Kweli's opinion would probably be the song "Stay Around" off of Ear Drum..

I didn't hear the song yet...I was saving it but I will when I go home tonite...I'm just curious what the beef is with the song? Is it the sound? Something that was said, the topic being addressed? or is it just purely because Justin Timberlake is on it? What's wrong with appreciating music in all it's forms and artists with different styles? I don't understand all the hostility over this track...maybe after I listen to it i'll get it?? Anyone already in this convo, please enlighten me...especially those who don't like it...I'm just curious as to the reason behind the discontent.

Numero uno, it's the sound -- it's a pop song.

Numero dos, the fact that Timberlake is on it and that Kweli is selling out.

Naw its not that serious, the track isnt even that serious.. dont waist any time worry about it honestly...

You guys are great. I'm sure you haven't had a listen to half the underground music that is out there. Yet you criticize. Then you hate on me cause I called out Kweli and assume I haven't had a listen. As if you and Kweli go back... chumps.

Don't get hurt cause someone doesn't like your MTV pop friendly FCC fine free radio crap. There is a reason why you didn't see Kweli on MTV in the past. His music was too real. How many Blackstar tracks made it to MTV? Are you saying that Blackstar is not popular? If so and they are not, sucks for those who don't know the music. Train of Though was popular. How many of those tracks made it to TRL? How many Hi-Tek tracks made it to MTV? How many of Kweli's b-sides made it to MTV? How about Chaos by Kweli and Bahamadia? Heater... never made it to MTV.

FOR A FUCKEN REASON!!!!!

I would rather those days be back. You don't like it? Go play your JT and MJ albums while you try to learn the latest dance moves. All you clones want are hooks and lame ass catch phrases.

Here ia a little Blackstar quote for you... Read this and understand why the underground is not meant for MTV. The message is more important then the messenger. He fell off. Like it or not. I just thought I would ask him why. Not any of you.

-------------

Album - Blackstar
Artis - Mos Def & Talib Kweli
Track - Hater Players
Verse 2 (Kweli)
Source - ohhla.com

-------------

We got all markets on lock
From meat to stock
Blackstar, what? Flowing like head rock in bars
Men flock to where we are, cause its the place to be
Grab my paint, jump on stage and deface emcees
We sell our souls like Spawn and come for the drone I sit upon
Freestyle or written songs so we can get it on!
Going back and forth, fallin back, all across the track
Passin the mic's like quarterbacks
of course its phat, get off of that!
Reverse psychology got em scared to say when shit is whack
out of fear of being called a hater, imagine that!
We ain't havin that reachin past the star status that you grabbin at
My battle raps blast your ass back to your natural habitat
So floss, cause what it costs ain't worth it to me
Cause I'm the one these Spice Girl emcees Wannabe
But they can't, ain't no points forever, so why bother?
Cause your girl calls my name out like Clarence Carter
Clarence Carter, Clarence Carter!
(I be strokin, that's what I be doin)
Aiyyo, as we rock harder
And always drop the bonified head nodders
Aiyyo, later for the hater-players
Yo-yo, yo-yo, later for these hater-players

---------------

You tell me if that was meant for MTV.

Or how about this?

-------------

Album - Blackstar
Artis - Mos Def & Talib Kweli
Track - Theives in the Night
Source - ohhla.com

-------------
(Kweli)

"Give me the fortune, keep the fame," said my man Louis
I agreed, know what he mean because we live the truest lie
I asked him why we follow the law of the bluest eye
He looked at me, he thought about it
Was like, "I'm clueless, why?"
The question was rhetorical, the answer is horrible
Our morals are out of place and got our lives full of sorrow
And so tomorrow comin later than usual
Waitin' on someone to pity us
While we findin beauty in the hideous
They say money's the root of all evil but I can't tell
YouknowhatImean, pesos, francs, yens, cowrie shells, dollar bills
Or is it the mindstate that's ill?
Creating crime rates to fill the new prisons they build
Over money and religion there's more blood to spill
The wounds of slaves in cotton fields that never heal
What's the deal?
A lot of cats who buy records are straight broke
But my language universal they be recitin my quotes
While R&B singers hit bad notes, we rock the boat
of thought, that my man Louis' statements just provoked
Caught up, in conversations of our personal worth
Brought up, through endangered species status on the planet Earth
Survival tactics means, bustin gats to prove you hard
Your firearms are too short to box with God
Without faith, all of that is illusionary
Raise my son, no vindication of manhood necessary

[M.D.] Not strong
[T.K.] Only aggressive
[M.D.] Not free
[T.K.] We only licensed
[M.D.] Not compassioniate, only polite
[T.K.] Now who the nicest?
[M.D.] Not good but well behaved
[T.K.] Chasin after death
so we can call ourselves brave?
[M.D.] Still livin like mental slaves
[both] Hidin like thieves in the night from life
Illusions of oasis makin you look twice
[both] Hidin like thieves in the night from life
Illusions of oasis makin you look twice

---------------

Perhaps that would fit right into the TRL line up ehh?

---------------

I understand if this is a little too real for you right now.

---------------

Album - Reflection Eternal
Artis - Talib Kweli & Hi-Tek
Track - Move Somethin'
Source - ohhla.com

-------------
(Kweli)

Kill all the yappin lets make it happen
You cats ain't real, you just a re-enactment
Better yet, dramatization
Soon as the director say action you start fakin
I start breakin
The whole joint start shakin
This ain't the time or place for you to prove something
Cut the stargazin' yo, move somethin'!

--------------

Why do you think JT wasn't on any of those albums. He was around and so was his boy band. I'm sure you have the poster up in your room...

If you have an issue with me wanting more of that then some flashing lights, new shades, gold chains and JT then there is something wrong with you.

Enjoy the new CD. Chances are you only buy singles anyways.

And simply by default, that track with KRS-ONE is better then the track with JT. If you feel other wise you probably also like Nelly.

Now let the BK mc respond and stop riddin' his nuts. If he doesn't... then he doesn't. Stop being a bunch of side busters.


Peace


Kweli - Chaos Feat. Bahamadia

"...Niggaz got a lot to say but they just can't rhyme
They just babies, I snatch em out they incubators
Attach them to respirators, they breathin hard like Darth Vader
Hard as candy and suck like Now or Laters
After a while your style's tasteless and it GOT NO FLAVOR"

funny how people are hating on "pop" music.

I know that such kind of people started to listen to underground artists who are on no lables or indi labels and who don't sell records 'cause to be commercial would be wrong. Such kind of people never watch TV or listen to radio...that's all commercial. No...they walked on the street (of course a no "pop"-ular one) and they heard an MCs who has fucking dope skillz but hasn't sold a record yet. Such "pop" hating musics don't listen to artists who have more than 10 fans.

You're just irgnorant, prejudged, close-minded and haters. It's funny how they think to know what "pop" sounds like. I guess to know that they studied MTV for more than 20 years!

To be succesful doesn't mean to be "pop". How ignorant are you?

Marvin Gaye, James Brown, Nina Simon, Grandmaster Flash and The Furious 5, Wu Tang, GangStarr, 2Pac, Biggie, Run-DMC, LL Cool J, The Fresh Prince, KRS-One, Afrika Bambaataa, SugarHill Gang, Too $hort, Public Enemy, Roxanne Shante, Biz Markie and many other great Hip Hop artists were and are POPULAR! They want to sell music. Run-DMC's collabo with Aerosmith was a popluar work...so? It's a good song! To be popluar doesn't mean to be week atomatically. You're just prejudged to think like that. It's a fucking shame that such people come to the Kweli board just to say that Timberlake is pop and that Kweli is selling out. You guys are straight haters. Yes, it is your opinion and you have the right to say it since this is a public forum but you haven't listened to this track!!!!!
Have you seen Kweli on MTV? On TRL? Have you heard him in the radio? Me not! And he sold 60K units in the first week! You're just jealous that he's succesful with his music and that he stays real. Yea, he gives a fuck about such stupid ignorant haters like you are! He gives a fuck about prejudging people and records a track with a Pop artists.
What the fuck do you want more? He stays fucking real! Read some interviews! He met JT at a jouney to Africa and they both know their sound may not fit together, but they fucking did it! They went in the studio and record a track! I respect Kweli for recording this track 'cause he def knows there will be some haters like you! But he straight gives a fuck about you!

I'm fucking done with this shit.

One love Kweli! One love Hip Hop! Real reconizes real...you're far away from that!

peace out!

I'm not agreeing to be a hater -- again, I'll always root for Kweli -- but as an artist, he's a complete contradiction at this point in time; as we all are to some degree, but he's a complete contradiction.

lol you're wild! You're using these quotes all wrong...

"Reverse psychology got em scared to say when shit is whack
out of fear of being called a hater, imagine that!"

That's an incredible bar, but your reasoning is stupid. Nobody cares if you didn't like the track or the album for that matter. Just say you didn't like it and say why you didn't like it. That's not why you're considered a hater. You're considered a hater because you feel an incessant need to whine to Talib about selling out and doing a track with an artist YOU don't approve of. Now tell me how stupid that is? And now you got some grudge against someone that was feelin' the track or feelin' the album because, to you, it's "commercial". That joint is mad soulful, I didn't think of pop music at all when I heard it. When you don't respect another's opinion, you're a H.A.T.E.R., a Heated Asshole That's Emotionally Ridiculous... LMAO, I just made that shit up.

Here's a bar for you Jesky... "Some underground heads is hatin' cause we have fun in clubs"

Not that I go to clubs myself, but if you like 'em, that's fine...

You need to learn respect. If you can't respect others, how can you respect yourself?

j-shine

First... JT and Kweli know that JT is pop.

Second... "Pop" comes from "popular" and "Pop" is also a reference to the type of music made. Visit a music store. JT will be under POP. Along with boy bands, girl bands and a host of other soft "pop" artists. You won't find KRS, UD, J-Live, Dead Prez, etc. You might not even find them at all... They sell plenty of records world wide.

Third... Heard the track, sucks.

Fourth... To be popular doesn't mean to sell out. Obvious.

Fifth... TV is dumbed down. Radio is dumbed down. People choose to watch and listen to other mediums. If you are ok with letting some program director decide on what you listen to... that is you. Relax. Not everyone needs MTV in their life and not everyone needs to be on MTV to be popular. Good music is not on TV or Radio. Unless you have a catchy hook with a 4 line verse you won't be on the radio or TV.

Your comments about underground music are obviously ignorant.

About your list, none were pop and Too Short sucks anyways. Aerosmith is a Rock and Roll band who merged with a Hip Hop group. No pop there.

And if you have to acknowledge that one is a good artist because you spent some time in Africa helping kids instead of realizing it through their music then... Good person, maybe. Still a PR stunt. Why did they need to televise it? Do it from the heart. Why should people know what you do in Africa when helping people in need? Why not do it for self ONLY?

Get over it. I would list some undeground artists who have sold more than 60k records, but you wouldn't know what to do with that list. As long as he sells fans like you... He needs you to cover the cost of all those artists on his album. KRS and madlib were probably the cheapest to pay. He needs to sell millions in order to recoup and do it all over again. Thus JT.


Peace.

lol 5thStBrotha finally has a friend on the boards.



yo my man if you dont like it stop bitchin and moanin about it. Ok you dont like the song. Fine with me. Dont be takin a shit on the boards though. maybe if you asked nicely kweli could answer your question


To say we haven't heard 50% of underground is right. there are tons of artists out there. You could name 8382 artists and there are probably 21264 more.



like kweli said he's done trying to please people like you and also people on the opposite end

Either you guys are just fronting, tip-riding, or you just don't get it; but Justin Timberlake is about as pop as it gets. But he ain't just pop, he's wack. I'd feel different if it was another rap artist with different messages, but Kweli is the same rapper who used to speak about black empowerment, Marcus Garvey, etc. -- and he put out a track with a singer who, from a cultural perspective, is one of the icons, or even symbols, of that very establishment he used to diss. That is selling out, I don't care what you apologists say.

You cats think I'm just dissing this because my heart is still back in '97, and I want more Black Star? No. As a black man, I'm just going to discard all those messages he once talked about during that time period, because it was apparently just talk. Now we're seeing how he's reacting, now that he's got to make financial decisions. Going back to the first post of mine: I don't trust most cats that use art as a means of political expression because it's usually aesthetic, and it's usually just whimsical; or some big abstraction that cats don't usually act upon.

Again, it's not just about a once underground rapper going pop, it's about a once underground rapper that had sigificant social/political/economic outlooks that he just sold short (not just through words, but through actions above all else). You people seem to think that you can play both sides, but a rapper like Kweli is either/or (especially considering the agenda the record industry has). Either you remain true to your principles/words -- words that he spoke, not me -- or sell out. And he is, slowly but surely, selling out. We all are to some degree, but his art and his image ain't nothing but a big contradiction. Look at his gear -- he's as bourgois as it gets.

Justin Timberlake represents the intellectual decay of our culture and had no business on a Kweli album.

Isn't the board here for people to be able to communicate with Kweli? Stop adding to the comments if you don't like it. Again, the category was "Ask Kweli". Ask nice or not, wasn't for you.

You will always have your pop stars to fall back on. Just called it how I saw it.

Remember the name. When you see my name on a post ignore it. Not meant for you.

Kweli was also broke and unknown. I am glad he has his recognition. It is just too bad someone who has produced the music he has and said the things he said ended up with JT.

Message not the messenger.

And stop trying to convince people that JT is good. I wasn't trying to convince you he sucks. Simply put, he sucks. You don't like that? Then go support and keep it to yourself. Otherwise, stop shittin on the boards.

Who came first, the pop or the undeground fans? Respect your elders snitches. hahaha

Peace

Ha! You get it.

oh snap he called us snitches


I dont like JT much either but its not the end of the world if he collabs with an artist you like... eh this is a pointless argument have it your way.... if you wanna complain to kweli about this subject, write him an angry letter or something. better chance he'll reply there than here (or maybe not actually.......)

It doesn't matter how good JT is. It would be selling out if he somehow changed his content, or tried to use him to make a single or sell records. Instead, he did a typical Kweli track, and hid it at the end of the album.

If he were doing the former, I could see the problem. As he didn't, this is just dumb.

I'm suprised by this. I mean, your a sucker, but perpetuating of ignorance is something you usually criticize.

Ok, so I'm listening to the track and the first thing that I hear is....

Expect the Unexpected....
It's kinda hard to keep faith in the things that you do when everybody turns they back on you
It's kinda hard to keep faith in the things that you do when everybody turns they back on you
It's kinda hard to keep faith in the things that you do when everybody turns they back on you
It's kinda hard to keep faith in the things that you do when everybody turns they back....

(So far...I'm feelin a lot of irony in these words...)

The first verse was very much Kweli substance addressing topics that have A LOT of relevence and meaning!

We gotta get back to what really matters....We gotta search our soul to find out what were after....the more I find my voice the more they try to make it harder....mom & dad don't forget to warn your sons & daughters....about the Nature of the world today...the nature of the world today


Everyone is entitled to their opinion, let me say that first and foremost.
I honestly find it very difficult to believe that you can listen to this song and become angry with Talib for this collaboration...I think it shows that Talib has the ability to bring whoever he works with to his level as far as subject content...Personally I think it's refreshing to hear Justin on a track with such relevence as this...I don't agree that Talib has sold out at all...he hasn't dumbed down his message at all...I thought selling out meant that you compromised your own integrity or intelligence for some money...maybe I'm wrong. What is the problem with Talib appealing to a wider audience, isn't that the point of being an artist with a message, or is that artist supposed to be confined and not grow just to appease a seemingly elitist attitude? There are always gonna be new fans...there's always gonna be someone out there hearing a Talib song for the first time...and this one might draw some people who had previously not givin Hip Hop a chance in the same manner of those who seem to bear a grudge against Pop...and it may cause a journey in Hip Hop that will open their eyes, ears and hearts to a whole new world of musical experience and possibility...so I think it has so much more positive potential then what is being acknowledged here in this forum. I love music...pop, country, jazz, blues, rock, even some heavy metal, new age, classical...Hip Hop & R-n-B just happen to be my favorite cuz that's the genre's that I've explored the most...but I guess i just can't understand the hatred, and I can't help but think that it comes from ignorance...especially such zealous hatred...this happens to be a universal hallmark...the only way to counter it is with understanding. Like I said in the beginning everyone is entitled to their opinion...but the ones that happen to mean the most are those expressed with intelligence. Once again I'll ask, please try to articulate your thoughts more clearly, I truly am interested in hearing why this song has upset those of you who feel so strongly that it "sucks"....How is Kweli not being true to himself? Did you REALLY LISTEN to the song and recieve the message or did you just see Justin Timberlakes name and pass judgement....someone went as far as to make their point using quotes from Blackstar & Reflection in bashing the song, but didn't even bother to quote the song they "hate" so much....how is Talib's message so different from those days?

And he didn't change the sound? When did you actually get into Kweli, or hip-hop for that matter -- '05/'06 I assume?

I'm not surprised that you're defending the Justin Timberlake collaboration -- you're about as conventional-minded/by the book as it gets. Try thinking outside the box for once.

The issue is beyond the content of the lyrics, or even in the music itself -- although, I thought the track wasn't that good, either way -- it's the fact that he made a song with one of the icons/symbols of the cultural establishment. To me, "selling-out" isn't some universal standard -- i.e., you sell x amount of records and you're a sellout; or you're on MTV and you're a sell-out -- it's something that is case-by-case, artist-by-artist. My criticism of Kweli isn't religious; it isn't necessarily musical (I know full well what the intentions of this newer music are...$$$; most artists follow the same pattern); it's black. Yes, Justin Timberlake has collaborated with other black artists -- again, case by case -- but none had the same social/political/economic messages that Kweli once did. Yet, now that he's making records to get himself set, financially, he's willing to let his messages, and even music go. You really think, as a black man, that I want to hear him now talk about Marcus Garvey? Essentially, I just think the his words and actions aren't lining up, and his art is contradictory.



He seems to know that he's being put through the meat grinder, as he becomes bigger and bigger -- and whether or not record company execs have him in the palm of their hands; or if he is exercising his free will is something I cannot sit back and try to assume. All I know is the music and the messages have gone down hill, and he's feeding into everything he once dissed. To me, that is sort of selling out.

01.

How is a Kweli and JT combination conventional? I must have missed him collabing with past-their-prime rappers.

See, this is what I'm talking about. The only problem I have with this track is that Kweli didn't let the messages go. This track was all message, and no solution, one of my biggest problems with him. Lyrically, it's a very typical Kweli song.

MY SISTA! That should've quieted everyone down

The only thing that significantly changed about kweli in my eyes is his actual voice. It still bothers the hell out of me.... like man I cant describe it here.... just listen to him say "Yeah" in the 90's then "Yeah" from around 02-now lol


if you feel differently then fine

I respect your point of view, I would like to share my own as well. I feel sick reading your words on some for realness...but I'm a take this slow and get it out right. How can you listen to Hostile Gospel, Eat to Live, Give 'Em Hell, More or Less, and The Perfect Beat and honestly say "You really think, as a black man, that I want to hear him now talk about Marcus Garvey?" so nonchalantly like he has done some great injustice by creating an equally powerful message in The Nature. He is sharing his thoughts and his soul....do you honestly think it's all about the money? What has he done so differently? What MESSAGE has Justin Timberlake ever put out that was so offensive to warrant a comment like you made? I just don't get it...it really does hurt me to hear you speak like that about someone that I hold in such esteem and feel like his message is so powerful. I realize this whole conversation was a question aimed at Talib, and that really I have no right even attempting to address it...I am attempting to understand what other people think about the artist that I support and respect.

If feel like this whole thing is an attempt at character assination instead of an honest critique of a song...maybe this is why Talib hasn't been back here in so long. I come here every single day, sometimes I just read the topics and listen to the conversations....sometimes I respond sometimes I don't...some days I just don't know how to respond. I hesitated and debated over this one.

"He's feeding into everything he once dissed"

How?

He's building a legacy. He's going to become more and more known...why shouldn't he work with other artists that he may not have had the opportunity or occasion to work with previously. I don't understand the vilification of Justin Timberlake...to my recollection he's made Love songs, and yes they were popular, and I happened to like his music along with most of the other songs I hear on the radio...it's a time and place for everything...it can't be all one thing all the time...the nature of life is growth and constant change....It's one thing to say you don't like the song...be it a reasonable explanation or not, but that's not what it seems like is going on here....yall is on some ol other shit on here.
I ain't never encountered no shit like this so...I'm pretty much throwed off at this point, stunned.
Guess I'll just have to concede to the fact that we are going to agree to disagree....I just can't feel where you are coming from.

^this is like me, w/o attitude. wierd

I used to be like that, just hating on the likes of JT because of his corny/gay/boy band past. Kweli changed my opinion with his constant positive messages, and JT's change of style played a big part.
And all of this talk about selling out is wack. I live in a country where they play so little US Hip Hop that you would think it doesn't even exist,yet i managed to find Kweli, and then started purchasing his albums (i mentioned in other threads, distribution is a bitch though) without ever seeing him on TV, or hearing him a single second on the radio (keep in mind that not all countries have rap/ R & B oriented stations).

What happened to not judging a book by its cover (however gay that cover is). This reminds me that the owner of my favourite team here in Bucharest banned Queen's music just because Freddie was gay, How stupid is that



By the way i like the song but JT puts an average performance, he is a good artist only when production suits him.

I'll admit, J'aime, after reading recent posts by both you and Slic Cat, I took some more time to check out the lyrics -- and I recant my initial statement: he has been, like Slic Cat stated, consistent with his lyrical content. I was wrong -- but that doesn't necessarily get him off the hook. It's about actions, not just words.

Edan

By reading his lyrics and by taking note of his actions, there is a real discrepancy in my view:



I just don't get this brotha, at all: he's speaking like a free-man from the streets, but collaborated with Justin Timberlake who is about as controlled/un-free as it gets -- he's embedded in the cultural establishment. Like I said, Kweli's art is a contradiction and has thus lost its credibility.

In addition -- this wasn't my overall concern; but he is a musician afterall -- I think the music has gone downhill. It's subjective, of course, but whoever is producing those beats needs to take it back tp the lab and get their fingers dusty. The beats are a total disappointment (although, "Soon The New Day" was palatable).

In all, he might be consistent lyrically, but his lyrics and actions are inconsistent. And to me, that's what matters. No, I don't want to hear him talk about Marcus Garvey anymore -- I'm not a big Marcus Garvey fan, either way; but it's the principle -- because he's just talking; it's all just for aesthetic fun, and that's why there aren't any solutions to the problems he, or frankly many others pose, Slic Cat: these ideas -- political/social/economic -- are just his little artistic playthings (now you might see why I'm not a big fan of art depicting, or even constructing, our social/political/economic reality). The utopian song with Timberlake was nice, but fantastic...evil exists -- be it instinctual or spiritual -- that's the blindspot of most art.

I'll paraphrase Kweli here. He's not an activist, he's an artist. That's something he's always maintained. Also, saying that he should go against the establisment is a cute idea in theory, but an unrealistic one. The best way to defeat the establishment - in this case, uninformed, racist record labels - is from inside that establishment. If you go outside of mainstream platforms, you don't get heard by as many people, and getting that message out is the most important part of the process. If using the mainstream market to achieve your greater goal (ridding yourself of that market), the ends justify the means.

As for actions, when your career is based on the words you write, stating your views so blatantly, when they go against the grain, is in itself an action.

So he just speaks of all these matters for aesthetic value? You might as well just keep you're mouth shut if that's the case. Nothing bugs me more than the insincerity of artists speaking about important shit.

I asked Talib if he does any charity stuff...he asnwered me: "My kids are my charity".

Kweli isn't a holy person...he's just a human like you and me. It looks like you expect too much by him. You can't say he has to do this or that. He gives people thoughts to think about. It's up to you to change yourself. It's not Kweli's mission to do this for you. He can just show your problems, can give you a different point of view...but the step to change these problems are the mission of every individum. I changed myself 'cause of Kweli's messages. Maybe people can't see it...but I can feel it.
I don't care with what kind of people he's working with, as long as I know that this music will blow my mind away, will give me new thoughts and ideas or just take me away from my problems for 3 or 4 minutes...I'll support it. I love the song "For Women". I don't have any relations to it...but as long as I can feel it, that I can feel the destinies of these 4 women...it touchs me. And that's the task of a musician. Some people will use Mos Def for it, some will use Hi-Tek, some other are using Justin Timberlake for it. As long as the product is what I can FEEL...it deserves my support. I trust Kweli in this case, that's why I'm supporting him even when I haven't heard the JT track yet.